the installation of banner on the wall

[LOScign]

,
prompt, if you please, to how actually fasten banner (fire wall) as far as the size of 11 X of 18 m down the wall according to the following scheme:
1. to insert beside the pockets, on the perimeter of banner, metallic zone with the width of 40 millimeters
2. to shoot banner through the zone by dowels (structural pistol) right through to the wall, through each meter -one-and-a-half?
(i.e. initially top, then to tighten and to shoot base, and then to align territory)





After giving statement, the question immediately asserts itself: “As mountain climber to mountain climber - and you banners suspended?” Described technology - game is some…
On the text:
1. it will be impossible to elongate similarly banner, it will hang as rag.
2. vinyl a similar fastening will maintain, yes that to sense. And as it is possible “to tear beside the shreds with the shot”? However, not by fraction to fire you are going…
3. how much - it depends on base and wind loads in the field. If base from a good concrete - years even during this rarefied fastening. If brick - depending on… Not for long, most likely.





To do is completely actual. To do, generally speaking, is possible practically everything, anything. Any, even most awkward concept, like this, can be embodied beside the life. Entire question before the money. On the estimated estimation this will take the shape of ~$40-50/square meters. I.e. sum total at the point of the work on this installation of ~$8070-10900. To you this is must? Is ready to begin 03.06.2004. True, it not for long, since from the assembling pistol it is possible to attach down the monolithic concrete (brand from 250 and above), the solid natural calculus (with thickness three times more than the length of dowel) and the ductile metal (with thickness from 1/3 lengths of dowel) - enumeration be all-inclusiveing, to other materials is cannot!





That respected is associate! Better forget about the zone, since actually attain grow prettier tension it will be is sufficiently problematically. If already you wish that first to push beside the pocket of that thrust cable. But generally there is nothing better for such dimensions of frame, but on then are compulsory eyelets (which a little weights its cost with the manufacture).

[LOScign]

, Sergey, Sergey and guest,
thanks at the point of your responses,
1. “as mountain climber to mountain climber - and you banners suspended?” - alas, I am not mountain climber and banners he did not suspend, that you immediately and determined
2. described technology is devised only because of the absence of acceptable version, i.e., the frame, which at the point of me drew local designers me is not tripled - its weight of approximately 1 (!!!), with the fact that the weight of banner comprises less than 90 kilograms of force, but down the cable they do not suspend (in itself city I it did not see)
3. to before propose my version I read forum on the banners and the fastening, and did the output that there is no uniform steady technology, and before the concrete situation each something devises itself, using some operation time
4. if you it does not hinder, advise, if you please, immediately on several questions:
- what version of the frameless fastening of banner can propose you?
- the zone of vinyl of which it does consist banner to better cement or to suture? (banner with the height of 18 m, with the width of 11 m, the press on vinyl with width of 1,5 m, band they will be vertical)
And still - before what you did see problem? , i.e., that immediately so of eyes? , why to thread angles, stud pins and so forth and the like is actual, but to clamp by the zone of metal territory there is no banner and to shoot this zone? is really this more complex \ longer \ more expensive than every 15 centimeter(s) to bore apertures with the depth of 250 millimeters, to drive in anchor, and by cord to then attract through the eyelets?
It is previously grateful at the point of the response, with the respect, rs.





Banner with the density of 450/square meters. not the best version for such sizes. I would take 600 gram. Since you request, that good to glue or to sew, I suspect, that your representations about this work just as removed, as about the installation you will have vast problems on the information of image and as result, noncoincidence and furrow throughout the entire length of limiting points. But time and, correspondingly, money you will destroy sea. However, driving out between the joining and the patch, it is necessary to give the preference of the latter. There are special glues for the cementing of precisely banner fabrics. BUT! Will have to change the disposition of zones based on the vertical to the horizontal. And forget about the eyelets on such sizes. As show 10 flight experience of the installation of banners, before 80% they do not maintain the necessary stress force and they are extracted. It is necessary to make with the pockets, beside which will be placed steel rod or the fixtures. And not cheaper whether, to order finished article in those, who do have 5 meter plotter? With the frame generally nothing not the clear as 60 meters of the 40th angle (or the square tube of 2525) can weigh ton? But more for the frame nothing and it is must. And about what anchors you write? Anchor, as assembling pistol, it is possible to use only, and is exceptional, before the heavy-aggregate concrete Of 250 even above or beside natural stone-. However, frame it is necessary to secure 10 for the sake of nylon dowel with the screw of d7-8 through 0,5 meters with the sinking beside the wall down 60 (this ., and angle and completely through the meter). However, without frame fastening and completely idleness down common 150- e structural nails. They have d5.; therefore you bore the wall through 0,5 meters by the auger of 5100 and you drive in there the nail, to which you by the caproic cord of d4. (before the braid with the core) the inserted beside the pocket fixtures of d10, cutting through pocket for the passing of cord (cut must be perpendicular down territory, not to the weld. Therefore pocket it is necessary to make 50 of free space from the weld to the territory)

[Mehhaen]

All this is beautiful. But here . (with which I am absolutely agreeable) in the first place raised the question about the tension of banner. If the author intends to suspend based on the rope, on top of that and in the absence experience, on top of that with even the small breeze, then oh oh oh as to me him it is pitiful. That sense to write as to secure. Versions lots. Task will stand - as to tighten.

[av]

Respected RS!
1. basic problem of that indicated by you method (zone beside the pocket and to the wall) - the absence of the possibility of the finishing broach of , since the fabric on entire perimeter will be forced against wall. The advantage of the method of that indicated by Sergey before the fact that fabric defends from the wall on 2-3 centimeter(s), which makes it possible to service it subsequently.
2. between themselves to cement. We is utilized for these purposes glue S -12, which is sold in any magazine of commodity for the external advertisement. Overlap on the place of patch 10-15 cm.
3. to print better beyond the plotter with the width of the press of 3. There will be less than limiting points, which with the manufacture has great significance. If in your city no such, order before other. If we . from you not far - I can help, also, with the manufacture and .
8 (8482) 48-20-41




I wish to add several admonitions. Glue SA -12, generally speaking, is not intended for the cementing of banner fabric, although many (and I myself including) are used him for this purpose. Cyanogen- acrylate (but SA -12 it relates precisely down the cyanogen- acrylate glues) it is intended for the cementing of the thick plastics (better from 1,5.) because it can sufficiently strongly attack the cemented surfaces. Second admonition. SA -12 is released two brands of (cosmofen) and it (cosmoplast). , after plotting and imposition of the cemented surfaces, makes it possible a certain time to push their relative to each other, and seizes practically instantly (it is necessary to follow so that the glue would not fall on fingers peel off will be together with the skin). Therefore, is necessary definite experience before its utilization. proposes to print beyond the 3rd to meter vehicle so that there would be less than the patches, and I immediately proposed to turn down those, who has 5 meter printing plotter still better (producer can be looked for on the site aah.lo before the section “of company”).
Now apropos that wrote : “The advantage of the method of that indicated by Sergey before the fact that fabric defends from the wall on 2-3 centimeter(s), which makes it possible it subsequently to service.” - the normally established banner requires no care independently of the method of fastening.
Mikhail wrote: “That sense to write as to secure. Versions lots. Task will stand - as to tighten.”. So indeed I described how to tighten. It is more than that, I am ready to tighten, also, with the zone before the pocket, zeroing in for the sake of its assembling pistol I based on this it began in 1993. Another question, that the labor consumption of this method is by an order more and, correspondingly, more expensive. But at that time before Russia not who printed, they drew from the USA, and it was envelopped client before $50-70/square meters., .. and at the point of the installation they could pay the money, about which I wrote before my first response.

[av]

Respected Sergey ! Speaking about the care of I it bore in mind following - after the winter installation of , in summer fabric being expanded forms furrows. We always pass in summer on winter and we stretch them on the guarantee. But to secure with the previously passed through zone beside the pocket matter terrifically labor-consuming since as I understand down the wall all it is hung out before the collection and simultaneously occurs and fastening down the wall and the broach of fabric along the zone. It was really at the point of you possible to avoid furrows? If yes, then you genius and magician, I surely then was not able.

[lc]

,
again by all thanks,
1. concerning frame - I found other designers and producers, new version costs by an order lower than first, me this triples, especially taking into account your opinions
2. I informed client about the possibility to print banner before Peter (bmi it proposed the very good price), but owner - nobleman, it solved, which is better to be connected for the sake of the local (even taking into account lower quality)
now please another question:
1. is maintained German vinyl (with density of 450 grams per square meters) wind load 30 kilograms per square meters?





Vinyl, including of , is released many nomenclature is so extensive, that no one will say to you. It is necessary to learn in suppliers. Usually strength characteristicss are packed within the limits of 1000-2004newtons beyond 5 cm. this limit loads, i.e., those, which do not maintain 95% of tested models. Working load must not exceed 20% of the maximum. Hence count. However, to me it is incomprehensible, for the sake of what wind loads the discussion generally deals. You have banner at a great distance from the wall? It is more than 200.? If no, then about the wind loads can boldly forget, tightening banner as drum.

[kastikaz]

The simplest and cheapest method of installation on the nails, about it spoke Sergey . Only fixtures within the pockets it is better to replace as far as the plastic small tubes for the electric wiring (diameter of 20-30) - they much more easily are safer before the installation.
You bore the apertures corresponding to nail by perforator in the wall
on the perimeter with space 15- of 20 centimeter(s) based on each territory, with the interval of 30-40 centimeter(s), you insert before the apertures the small piece of (not steel) as the plug and nail (nail 150 millimeters or near). Moreover to bore must a little at angle down the side outer from so that the lacing would keep in the base of nail. Well and banner you then lace, making slot perpendicular down edge (with the inserted small tube) for the sake of length about 5 cm.
Before the more serious version the row of nails on the perimeter is replaced by body the simplest version the shaped tube of 2020 millimeters, to be attached down the wall for the sake of the anchors through every 56-200centimeter(s) with the inserted gasket between the wall and the tube (it will approach nut) - so that it would be where push through the lacing.





For the completion of , I place here the letter, obtained by me from russign 09.06.04 more.: “, Sergey , thanks at the point of your response, today I already solved a question ”. This after he asked to estimate work, that I did. .. this work contract someone already obtained. But if there is the desire to about the methods of the installation of banner fabrics and grids down the wall, without relatively to the concrete work contract, then I am ready to continue and to do several admonitions down the response of kostikaz. The tubes proposed as far as them possess a whole series of the deficiencies, one of which are the price they more expensive than aluminum, to say nothing of they became. Most acceptable on the price are Russian, but here comes out their another deficiency material. Our make only from the polypropylene, which very badly transfers temperature differentials. Some steep western firms make from polyethylene, that is much better, but the price beside $2 at the point of the meter of perimeter only besides the tubes, make they, fairly often, acceptable (at the point of me somehow it was necessary to pull the rag of 801. Before the conversion down the area, only these tubes, they would arise to client more than beside $4 at the point of the square). The following deficiency is flexibility. Periodically in the work fall the light banners, which are pulled as elastic (aspect ratio to 1,5%). After inserting beside the pocket of this banner plastic tube, instead of the even territory you will obtain wave. True, this deficiency sometimes passes beside the advantage. This when article is not rectangular, but it is rounded with a low radius of from one meter and more. On the diameter proposed of 20-30. are less convenient before the work how minimum from releasing of of 16. On weight and safety of 10-12. aluminum tubes not are heavier and not riskier, but it is cheaper, more rigid more stable to all atmospheric effects are more convenient before the work. For the lacing there is no best. Further. Why to bore (but not to bore) wall so frequently? Even for the vertical rags of 3012. is completely sufficient step beside 0,5., and across the sides and entire 0,65. Why this great space? By zigzag to lace? It is inconvenient. Is much more convenient the parallel lacing, when cord based on the nail does go away down the slot, done directly opposite this nail, from there it is returned down the same nail, based on it in parallel to territory it does go to the following nail, based on which again it does go away down the following slot and so forth with this system the space it is completely possible to decrease to 10, and when desired and ability and to 2 see why before the aperture wire? That is more not steel, created the electrochemical pair, which leads down the intensive corrosive destruction of material? It suffices to take for drilling the auger of the same diameter as nail (standard structural nail down 120 - d4, down 150 - d5, down 200 - d6). Sometimes new, still not to time the not worked auger has a diameter only greater, especially this it suffers “To ”. But the producers of nails sometimes economize material and nail has a diameter only smaller. Then, before the process of forcing, nail you a little bend beside the side of rag it inserted down 3-4 cm., it tucked in. it clogged down 4-5 more cm., again tucked in and so forth
And latter admonition. What does mean “by anchors”? Anchor this . NOT ONE SIMILAR ANCHOR IS INTENDED FOR THE WORK BEFORE THE WALL MATERIALS!!! (As that all possible forms and the brand of bricks and lightweight concrete) anchor they are intended, ONLY IT IS EXCEPTIONAL, for the fastening before the heavy monolithic concrete of brand from 250 are above before the solid natural calculus EVERYTHING!!! For the fastening beside the bricks and in the panel nylon of dowel with the screw. 90% of panel- brackets, pulled out by the hurricane of 1998 in Moscow, sat on the anchors. The nail of (d6.), correctly oppressed beside the brick, keeps large load, than the anchor- stud pin of d8.!!!

[av]

Respected Sergey ! With your experience you are simply obligated to release educational methods allowance “the installation of on the wall, theory and practice”. Demand will be and I the first before the turn.

[albsnimber]

wrote (a):
Respected Sergey ! With your experience you are simply obligated to release educational methods allowance “the installation of on the wall, theory and practice”. Demand will be and I the first before the turn.
It is completely agreeable; 0)

[ExCenlend anatiur]

By banners I am occupied sensitive more than year and loosely. But it arrived down finished technology. All simply and is must no lacings. All simpler and easier! Before the banner beside the pockets of profile square approximately 20-25. before it the rivet- nuts are work-hardened. To be attached it down the angles for the sake of the welded through the stud pins. Angles welded, are attached down the wall for the sake of the pair of anchors, size anchors it depends on the size of banner. It is tightened banner by stud pins without being stretched. I the banner of 108 tightened one. It was necessary to run a little with the signboards, but there were no problems. Banner - as drum. With on most successful of the fastening angles of folds it did not become.





Only did tighten one or did make entire installation completely one? Down the nails with the lacing and the tube beside the pocket I beside the lone person completely suspended horizontal 711. And in you was how long occupied entire installation (taking into account time down drilling and unriveting of rivet- nuts)? In me entire installation occupied 9 hours.
And, god for! How much it is possible to say! Well do not keep steel of anchor from the wall! It does not occur walls from the heavy monolith!!!

[ExCenlend anatiur]

Only did tighten one or did make entire installation completely one? Down the nails with the lacing and the tube beside the pocket I beside the lone person completely suspended horizontal 711. And in you was how long occupied entire installation (taking into account time down drilling and unriveting of rivet- nuts)? In me entire installation occupied 9 hours.
And, god for! How much it is possible to say! Well do not keep steel of anchor from the wall! It does not occur walls from the heavy monolith!!!
Two together they suspended. Rivet- nuts not I placed. Before the workshop they placed. We made installation to vapor of days. But it is here about the anchors…. You about what? Brass? They do not keep? In what wall? From the brick wall they keep on hurray. Not of the hollow brick certainly. This and before their specification be. We hang on the anchors. Effort not down the ejection certainly is done… But two together to pull - does not stir. Yes, experience of banner installation is small. A total of about 10 pieces of banners. All about one method were pulled. Can your method and it is better… So according to the description it is small that explanatory it is possible to comprehend… But banner on the stud pins I meet all more frequent and it is more frequent. By the way, and beside what price now of the installation of ? The latter price at the point of which worked my partner - 5 Baxes kilovolts per meter.





Technology is simple and clear. Before the solid bricks and the panels is placed the nail beyond 150 (length of 150., d5.). By perforator by the auger of d5150 (210) is bored aperture by the depth of 120. before which is nailed. Rock hooks of beaters? Principle is the same. Cord ( of d4.) is cabled down the nail. Opposite the nail the pocket, beside which is inserted the tube. Section is done perpendicularly down tube from the tube almost to the weld. Weld to on no account catch! Cord is passed in the section around the tube and is returned down the same nail, it bends it under 90 degrees and, in parallel to the territory of banner, it is conducted to the following nail. Both so forth and the like
Before the hollow brick entire the same, only nail down 200 d6., and corresponding auger 200 (260) d6.

[av]

I think for accelerating the installation of on the pre-fabricated houses to buy assembling pistol, and it does stand. What are characteristics with the work with the pistol from the practice?





The great probability that it will not keep. It is possible to secure from the assembling pistol, only it is exceptional, beside the heavy-aggregate concrete, solid natural calculus and metal. EVERYTHING!!! long ago, after trying to remove shot in the year thus far panels, nearly dropped they, because they remained in my hands. Dowel simply they were removed from the wall.

[Veh]

Quotation:
Of is added: Steradians of 23 207482:20 the heading of the statement:
I think for accelerating the installation of on the pre-fabricated houses to buy assembling pistol, and it does stand. What are characteristics with the work with the pistol from the practice?
it first, fig keeps, in the second place, panels by shot on hurray they are divided off, and furthermore they do not keep, but before the third, assembling pistol is extremely inconvenient in the exploitation on the rope. furthermore, the sounds of shots cause in tenants the extremely unpleasant associations

[av]

As I understand in the walls of standard pre-fabricated houses it is used concrete not relating down the category of heavy, such walls they are easily and unconstrainedly bored by perforator and before them the nail of assembling pistol it does not keep either it keeps it badly or keeps well, but small time interval. But there are walls (in our city of this 16 and some by objects) where by the perforator so to agonizingly bore that the trifling installation is extended 2-3 on the time. Apparently precisely on such walls it is possible to work by assembling pistol? And even how to work by it before the metal? Preliminarily holes are drilled or not? If no that is what maximum thickness of metal for the work by pistol?





Before the metal it is necessary not what to bore. Even if you , most likely beside the aperture you will not fall. Metal must be viscous. Steel, as a rule, is encountered brand 3. completely it fits. Or aluminum. Other metals before are encountered much more rarely. I so understand, that you intend to take Russian . Hardly you will be destroyed down 10 charge “To ”. It a little on other works, and in our the thickness of the punched metal is determined as far as the power of cartridge. 5 levels of power. The cartridges of different power have different colors. Before sale, as a rule, are encountered 3 average red, blue and yellow (to of the decrease of power). The most powerful and weakest barely they are encountered. 3 with the thickness of 2., applied to 3 millimeters, completely shoots through by red. By the most powerful (paint I do not remember it seems black) zeroed in 3 millimeters plate to laying 5 millimeters on the concrete column. This about the metal.
On the concrete panels. Before the panel housebuilding the keramzit concrete usually is used. Or, is thinner, foam concrete (cellular concrete a little different technologies of obtaining, as I understand, but for our work there is no difference between them). In 10 years before the only time fell the building with the panels from the concrete with the filler not by keramzit, but by granite grit. Problem is solved by good perforators, which must be designed for the work with the augers one and a half times greater d. I.e., if you work with the augers of 10-14., then perforator must draw the augers to 22-24 millimeters A, the main thing, by good augers “”, and it is best anything of the French firm “” (“Diager”) of the brand “Of booster”. With the utilization of data of augers with above perforators indicated, the time loss down drilling of heavy monolith, in comparison with the brick, relative to total time for the installation, is not so considerable, that it is possible not to consider.
OUTPUT: work by a good tool this it will be paid!

[av]

It is good to you… “To ”, “To ” before our territories above To necessary beside Samara to go (100 km from Togliatti) and about and heard no one!





Aleksey! Well really no one of the familiar does drive never beside Moscow? It is possible to ask to visit at the point of the structural market, to buy and to bring. Augers will occupy not so much place and weight.











the vast thanks to all participants in the theme at the point of the very cognitive responses:)personally I learned for itself much new and were obtained responses down the long ago tortured me questions
in me the thought on the installation (truth of condition are somewhat they were idealized) also arose: on the wall from the heavy-aggregate concrete with the installation of not too great banners to use instead of the nails (anchors, plastic dowels and so forth) dowel zeroing in as far as their pistol with the necessary step and the space

[Jori]

Gentlemen, to me greatly was pleased debate “about weighing of ”, but it does not seem you that does not cost this quantity of words. Technology is very long developed, all rakes are passed, when you turn yourselves down the specialists. I with respect relate for the experience of participants in the forum, simple working before the advertizing firm to years, strange to read some statements and advice.
It is agreeable, with the installation of , appear , if exceeds 200 square meters.
To about “insolent, but ”. To crumble the market for 3- by Baxes at the point of square meters. possible, only then at the point of client it is necessary to pay 5 ., that to remove such “” .

[Veh]

Yuri, you will not hinder to pass along the Minsk street and to look down the side of area? they have there already long ago hang, and thus far they did not fly away.





by it passed





By banners I am occupied sensitive more than year and loosely. But it arrived down finished technology. All simply and is must no lacings. All simpler and easier! Before the banner beside the pockets of profile square approximately 20-25. before it the rivet- nuts are work-hardened. To be attached it down the angles for the sake of the welded through the stud pins. Angles welded, are attached down the wall for the sake of the pair of anchors, size anchors it depends on the size of banner. It is tightened banner by stud pins without being stretched. I the banner of 108 tightened one. It was necessary to run a little with the signboards, but there were no problems. Banner - as drum. With on most successful of the fastening angles of folds it did not become.
rivet- nut?
well you are gentlemen
this zh down each new banner is necessary to mark off wall under the brackets…
here already actually “new -”

[Duk]

Quotation:
this zh down each new banner is necessary to mark off wall under the brackets…
Based on what this it to mark off? Hang out directly with the already bracket and set bracket on the place, then you will tighten.





Tuk wrote (a):
Quotation:
this zh down each new banner is necessary to mark off wall under the brackets…
Based on what this it to mark off? Hang out directly with the already bracket and set bracket on the place, then you will tighten.
I did correctly comprehend that this the joke is such?

[VN]

Be so kind! Even taking into account entire that presented here and beside “the installation of fire wall on to cable”- it is correct whether to elongate the vertical banner of 102,5 at the point of the eyelets to the dowel- screws “by the snake” (before the meaning to lace) of the centimeters through 40? Or it is necessary to insert before the pockets of tube? Yes, and of all here and valuable instructions I did not comprehend, it is mandatory to the tubes (reinforcements), inserted beside the pockets on the perimeter of banner to be whole down entire length of side? Or it is possible to push several, let us say, the 2nd meter pieces?
Do not count at the point of the labor, eliminate illiteracy!

[av]

If we wall without , laziness make body, and before are already well-packed eyelets, then assemble down the dowel- nails by snake. Dowel - nail must it is located between the eyelets with the space from the territory of fabric of approximately 10 cm. the main disadvantage - a quantity of apertures is equal to a quantity of eyelets, which, however, not is critical on this size. If there are no eyelets, and there are pockets, assemble down the cables. If we there is the great desire hang 2.510 down the fixtures, then better if it will be one whip.

[wonjalb]

I do not know, who suspended and why. But picture is the following. A similar banner on the eyelets, lacing by snake, and on the dowel- nails, hang half a year on one of the buildings in Kazan. Spectacle , all nails were oppressed observing either vertical line or diagonal. They distended themselves from the wall against the different distance. Was tightened well, but . Unfortunately I cannot let the photograph-they removed it.
But this of the series, so cannot be suspended.
Frame, or fixtures, and no nails.

[Duk]

Oh, ! The question missed:
Quotation:
I did correctly comprehend that this the joke is such?
No, by no means joke. Is secured angle at one point, and following fastening - with the level on the angle. And from below - the same before the free hanging. Stud pins further are pulled.





Dowel- nails with the lacing - very even not poor method of fastening, especially on to any extent high buildings. To suspend it is necessary to be able, and all matters. Evidently nothing criminal!
Recently it had dinner in the cafe and looked beside the port against the graduated house located opposite 9- TI. I look - under the tectum signboard horizontal. It is regarded metallic or plywood panel. It did begin more attentively to scrutinize - as this not weak signboard they did there gather? And it only here noted that this is banner and it was to dowel to nails! It then recalled that this we it suspended, moreover already years are three as…

[Duk]

In general, exactly of 710 somewhere here I described. On very similar technology. But it is possible to write.
1. I insert before the upper and lower pockets of , I make holes opposite the nuts, apply angle and bait stud pins.
2. I displace all this beside the cylinder, beginning from the lower territory I raise down the wall (or I lower based on the tectum).
3. I place anchor before to upper (let by law) bearing.
4. I am moved to the following anchor, I place beyond the angle level and I model the second anchor before the horizon with the first. Assistant is necessary to tighten the loose territory of angle. If we there are horizontal architectural elements or the possibility measure distance based on the territory of tectum, task is simplified.
5. I move to the following anchors on the turn with the same .
6. when upper territory is fixed, I begin to unwind cylinder to base. We made this two together with the solid breeze, but there were no problems. In the case of very unsuccessful wind, it is possible to tighten pair or millions of ropes from the tectum to base, abuttingly to the wall, and to unwind cylinder under them.
7. cylinder is unwound, I strike right lower anchor.
8. I am misaligned with the level and so forth, good be re-weighed below to already and not necessary.
9. I tighten stud pins.
10. before principle, lateral fastenings in that case to nothing, but if they are envisaged, then I push in on top beside the lateral pockets. Already in any case, they must not be whole.
I will repeat again: this is - practical methodology. I put to use it.
Actually, when great desired, similar can be cranked beside the lone person. but this - perhaps that on the bet.

[VN]

The many thanks!
Technology of the client-suspend we will be above dowel. But here “by snake” or “opposite the eyelet”-we think. “Snake” like vertically well elongate more than maneuver will be.

[av]

I would suspend by snake, but listen to Sergey , it bad does not advise, try to strike opposite the eyelet. About the results you will describe?





In the absence wind, I would elongate initially only at the point of 4 bearings, and then already passed upper horizontal before 10 millimeters from the banner by parallel lacing, then the lower horizon beside 20., tightening banner, and it then laced vertical lines beside 10. If cord will nearly coincide before the tone for the sake of the color of wall - fastening will be not at all evident.

[S. k.]

It cannot be said that I am strong before ; however, it came.
During the lacing by snake each eyelet tries only to be deployed perpendicularly down the axis of cord. Small wave runs from this. Directly (by individual small pieces) there is no such wave during the lacing and tension it is possible to give much more, after passing cord beside 2-3-4 revolutions. Yes to fix it more simply. So that - “on the contrary”
Question To : Against some moment suspending and removing it came to the conclusion that almost any of it is possible to almost ideally elongate in all at the point of 4 bearings. All the remaining bracings - solve utility problems. - What do you think??





A question not to me - but forum is public, but therefore I will answer.
S. k. wrote (a):
During the lacing by snake each eyelet tries only to be deployed perpendicularly down the axis of cord. Small wave runs from this. Directly (by individual small pieces) there is no such wave during the lacing and tension it is possible to give much more, after passing cord beside 2-3-4 revolutions. Yes to fix it more simply.
In order to any waves” it is there " worthwhile to conduct the rope through the eyelet always based on one and the same side, but not as god may will it, and then by drawing out at the point of the angular eyelets entire tightened is completely straightened. But about 2-3-4 revolutions - I do not know your physical force, but I already on the twofold block and tackle (2-3 revolutions on your) before the condition to tear for the sake of 3 millimeters the rope (we tie we the banners of, however, 4 millimeters). And all the more - to draw practically any eyelet.
On the lacing “on the contrary” and the lacing “by snake”. With the installation of the banner (speech it goes not about the small banners) with its consolidation along horizontal to elongate its is not immediately possible, especially upper . Final bracing can be manufactured only if entire side will be fixed. However, if we secure “on the contrary”, on top of that at a distance less than 50 millimeters - extended banner must be already before the process of the consolidation of these points. It will then no longer be clearance for the bracing, and it will be impossible to elongate this fabric! But this are all - excess complexities * (although decided, - excess of ). “Snake” with the consolidation of dowel- nails beside 20- 25 cm. from the banner this possibility gives before an optimum quantity. It is possible to, of course, decrease the distance from the attachment points to the banner, but distance less - the more complex it is to elongate.
Certainly, if the task of elongating the banner of any size would be set, driving in dowel- nails although directly through the eyelets - we solved it. But why to complicate simple things?
S. k. wrote (a):
Against some moment suspending and removing it came to the conclusion that almost any of it is possible to almost ideally elongate in all at the point of 4 bearings. All the remaining bracings - solve utility problems. - What do you think??
You suspended small banners. I even said - simply small. On to any extent banner with his attempt it is at least simple to hold at the point of the angular eyelets - they are removed ! No, eyelets across the sides - in no way excess, including for the bracing (physics in the limits of school course - but to paint laziness).

[S. k.]

The eyelet only has two sides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One looks to the wall, another based on the wall to our great native land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the bearing between the entering and outgoing cord is equal to 0 degrees, then the force, which attempts to deploy eyelet perpendicularly down wall it is equal to 0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If we barely stretch by the brains (not mandatorily on the asphalt), then it will become understandable that the bearing = of 0 can be only during the lacing “on the contrary”
This so is simple: “beyond the theme” each further contrives itself for itself to the extent of its abilities.
Any physical phenomenon treats within the framework its definiteness. Is understood to elongate at the point of 4 bearings possibly only when the mass of it does not exceed the force of necessary for the ejection of one angular eyelet, multiplied as far as two.
To the experts: Publish if you please formula the area of , the density of fabric ( thickness and durability), the weight of and the force of the ejection of eyelet (with of the fabric of 1 times)
Then we learn what of it is possible to elongate at the point of the bearings without having pulled out eyelet.
P.S. a question has one dirty trick, find it!
Further: Force the tightening 1 branch of tackle does not depend on a quantity of branches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If single cord is torn with the load 100 kilograms of force, then tackle is broken also with the load 100 kilograms of force against the entry. In this case the developed effort will be more than 100 kilograms of force multiplied as far as a quantity of branches (each itself for itself it here solves: as to consider the quantity of branches)
Formula contains one dirty trick. I give the prompt: Efficiency





Flowery.





Formulas - write themselves, nevertheless theory will come out.
If already you are going to write, then: it is worthwhile to take into account for the formula of the detachment of the mass of the banner, allotted for 4 bearings that to align upper horizontally will not come out before principle (effort it approaches infinity), but therefore it is necessary to input “the allowance of sagging”.
And before the same formula - there is there one unknown - the durability of holding eyelet before the banner. VERY variable value, moreover - even in the limits of one banner. Still “the coefficient of allowance”.
To whom not laziness - be entertained!
But even for the curious - problem in the physics. I recommend to design load for the bearings of banner, with the consolidation of it only at 4 points (at least small, 36 of meters). Estimated wind load for Moscow 260 N/square meters. (if I am not mistaken). Certainly, this for the freely hanging fabric - beyond the banner, which hangs on the wall, other loads will perform. But I recommend all equal-. You !





Estimated wind load for Moscow 260 N/square meters. (if I am not mistaken).
You make mistakes. On old for the region of Moscow had to maintain wind loads with the wind to 25 meters per second. - To 30/. of hydrodynamics they claim on the latter resolutions of the government of Moscow that with such velocities of the load of the order of 400/square meters. “Advertisement- safety”, putting to use the conclusions by TsAGI (Central Institute of Aerohydrodynamics im. N Ye Zhukovskiy) for the results of purgings before the wind tunnel, taking into account the nonuniformities of loads and apparent additional mass beyond the jerk, gives ~600/square meters. due to the conditions of loose development and with the height of the lower territory of article it is more than 12. from the earth, and due to the conditions of dense development with the height of the upper territory lower than 12. - ~350/square meters. To these data personally I believe most of all. “” periodically counts to 900/square meters. Itself personally kept their similar conclusion down / before the hands.





S. k. wrote (a):
Question To : Against some moment suspending and removing it came to the conclusion that almost any of it is possible to almost ideally elongate in all at the point of 4 bearings. All the remaining bracings - solve utility problems. - What do you think??
Already he wrote: the normally tightened banner, these are banner elongated with the effort ~2.000/.. Hardly it will be possible to give this tension, putting to use only 4- angular eyelets.

[VN]

The many thanks with all at the point of the responses!
However, my client quietly and peacefully found to himself, apparently, cheaper executives. They despite the fact that agreed on Thursday - Friday, it simply vanished.
But, well these their, ,-I will go better tree I will fall down!

[VN]

Of course not, on Monday I with the tree am satisfactory of -upright, on the bracings (not necessary to vulgarize).
But tree can only you, Sergey !





to On- me to as to be secured banner. All they suspended also on for long.
I can only add to the idea Of that rope it is better to tie down the banner and down the nail. of eyelet down the nail. The idea of the running of the entire rope through each eyelet vanishes.





to On- me to as to be secured banner. All they suspended also on for long.
I can only add to the idea Of that rope it is better to tie down the banner and down the nail. of eyelet down the nail. The idea of the running of the entire rope through each eyelet vanishes.
Thus they worked by means of the great areas with the very well set eyelets. Ropes it goes away two times more, but also the effort of tension you give two times more.





VL wrote (a):
Of course not, on Monday I with the tree am satisfactory of -upright, on the bracings (not necessary to vulgarize).
But tree can only you, Sergey !
Vlad! I joked! It was possible not to answer. Simply it was wanted to a little dilute this theme by humor.

[VN]

Yes I generally- that also joked. Type “in the tone”…
Say, and it is correct whether to suspend banner at -10 degrees? Will not sag it then? Or at what minimum temperature this is worth making?

[WxEdeEogle]

VL wrote (a):
Say, and it is correct whether to suspend banner at -10 degrees? Will not sag it then? Or at what minimum temperature this is worth making?
Vlad.
They pulled somehow with -15. To client it shut, yes even us money it urgently wished. They laced by the snake through the dowel- nails. Like, everything came out. Only smallness they stiffened





They suspended also beside -25. To banner to , it they at what temperature suspend, if we pull to the values pointed out above. 2.000 - 4.000 Newton/the meter of perimeter it is sufficient in order and in summer, under the sun not to sag.





C





and is expedient to prophesy 900 m. in December, down the lag bolts and the eyelet, it can not be lazy and assemble perimeter from the angle and pull by stud pin the fixtures through the pocket…?





Cloud





This looking against what period, if makeshift design, then the frame of is not necessary!





C wrote (a):
….and is expedient to prophesy 900 m. in December, down the lag bolts and the eyelet, it can not be lazy and assemble perimeter from the angle and pull by stud pin the fixtures through the pocket…?
The area of banner not about which speaks. The much great significance linear dimensions have. If this is horizontal 1506, then it is possible down the eyelets, while if 3030, then, most likely, eyelets will not maintain tension. In this case entire equal- winter this or summer. It is further. If eyelets, then about what “lag bolts” in general speech!? Lag bolts have peak load measured by Kilonewtons, and eyelets, give god, 500 Newton. Place nails. D5. Under the lag bolts it is necessary to be bored, as a minimum, by 8 and to turn up them, and to place with the frequency of eyelets, i.e., through 260-302millimeters of work - to ! Placing frame, to be bored necessary through 1000., to pull the hooks through 500. Works are less!
My recommendations: eyelets has meaning to use only and exclusively on the constant frame, on which regularly is changed the rag. In all other cases the pockets (with the fixtures, if we pull by hooks, also, with the aluminum tube, if we lace). Lag bolts generally never to not place - nails or frame.





C





made clear, unambiguously 3030 - down the frame and by stud pin. Due to the appropriate conditions it is possible down nails ..... describe if you please as nails before the concrete to place, without the power tool….





C wrote (a):
. describe if you please as nails before the concrete to place, without the power tool….
In no way. To bore by the perforator Of d5100 for the nail of 5150.

[WxEdeEogle]

They suspended also beside -25.





I understand, if the discussion dealt for the sake of the facades. But for installation- that what difference, such as temperature? It forewent now the installation - it lost client. Or you do propose entire winter not to work?





C





Most that memorizing was incline and fastening AFU for “the megaphone” down the tower for this not , the height of 77 meters the temperature of below -25, it is above difficult to present how minus, wind, snow storm… of ! of the iced over feeders: cubic inch to , try to down with the incline. Installation was finished before the 12th to the hour of night. All were satisfied!
Felt boots in time procured, they saved!

[WxEdeEogle]

But for installation- that what difference, such as temperature? It forewent now the installation - it lost client. Or you do propose entire winter not to work?
To installation this on the horseradish. This to you not on the horseradish. Installation can also on half-day be elongated. Really health it is not pitiful. Well, it is possible before the life to several times complete feat either from the end need or on- youths. But why beside the system to input?
Yes even then, why entire winter? In Moscow frost of real from the force week at the point of the winter. Client must be also educated. Flights under the weather are adjusted slightly. Cranes with the wind do not work. There are the reasons, which make the work either of impossible or extremely risky. Client must understand this. If he does not understand, then its value is small. Well, you it… Well, hundred (thousand) it is less… Itself and its labor also must be respected. I two times rejected further cooperation for the sake of my clients not because they threw or entirely little paid, but because me it felt sick from their talentless constructions and organization of the working process. That case itself, when everything was through zh… But since to re-educate I them did not can, simply tore with them everything. About which not at all I feel sorry.
If to you do propose glasses to wash with -15, you will climb to make? Or of squares down 200 to pull before the gale warning?





If to you do propose glasses to wash with -15, you will climb to make? Or of squares down 200 to pull before the gale warning?
Glasses I will not wash, also, with +20, but rag , I do not see problems. They pulled 1015 with the wind, when we “sausage” based on the tectum to the wall threw out, and wind her to us conversely filled up. But when they were returned based on the installation, saw those composed by wind the main-line panels of 36. There was this in Moscow in September 98.

[WxEdeEogle]

Glasses I will not wash, also, with +20, but rag , I do not see problems. They pulled 1015 with the wind, when we “sausage” based on the tectum to the wall threw out, and wind her to us conversely filled up. There was this in Moscow in September 98.





But here apropos …
Before principle- that possibly, but WHY? We not in the Mongolia, this there of wind they always blow. Usually the high winds comes On the Border cyclone. And it passes next day. It was not possible to wait day and the next day to hang? You, I assume, they did not request increase at the point of the extreme conditions. Then why zh… to tear? Indeed you are liable to pull out the same eyelets with the unexpected wind gust. I understand, professionalism, experience, competent technology they will make it possible to fulfill work. But to what these strain, when it is possible to transfer installation on the day on THE to reasons? We also somehow were stretched before the installations beyond the pre-election themes. A question of each day there stood. Well so I and money based on them removed . But in you contingency situation on the standard rates is received. But this be to itself.





Of course not. In the client was great problems with the periods (yes and also), .. could not be transferred also on the day. Client would fall on money at the point of the interruption of periods, and installations would begin to be placed. But to apropos tear zh…, so they did not tear. It is simple instead of 5 hours, they worked by 6,5. Yes even pedagogical considerations were present - children it selected in the year thus far, almost without experience. It was necessary to show what to work it is possible and under such conditions.





By un- to take care is necessary itself to the extent of the possibilities, to take care. It occurs, what “is must - so it is must”, but if there is the possibility to wait out adverse conditions - there is no meaning to be stretched. Health most expensively is envelopped.

[WxEdeEogle]

By un- to take care is necessary itself to the extent of the possibilities, to take care. It occurs, what “is must - so it is must”, but if there is the possibility to wait out adverse conditions - there is no meaning to be stretched. Health most expensively is envelopped.
Absolutely I support. I please to correct comprehend my statements. I am not lazy person and not sloven. I am pro, before of years 15. Only I fight at the point of the reasonable approach. Yes, there are moments “must”. Then we are stretched, but I try to plan work so as not to surmount unnecessary complexities. They so before our matter are sufficient.
Success by all!





Philip





Order at the point of the installation of banner recently arrived. It earlier suspended only down the body, but it read before the forum about the fastening on the nails and proposed to client as version. This will similarly triple it.
Question. Were there no cases of of bracings based on the nails, and not better whether before this meaning to use some special posts with the rings against the end. Or nail not to simply drive in, but to secure for the sake of it piece cords with two eyelets. Before one is nailed, before another - threads itself .
And also, it is not necessary whether to soak off the ropes before the bracing. It is, for example, known about experience of alloys along the mountain rivers that the twists for the frames of catamarans are better to moisten. So they more rapidly are extracted and less they are worn out.

[av]

Philip, .
of 1. grow prettier to the tension of of bracing based on the nails they do not fly and they are not worn out. The majorities of problems appear when insufficiently tightened constantly it on the wind, here possibly anything.
2. the charm of fastening down the nails before technological simplicity and to complicate fastening by additional elements in my view does not have a meaning.
it 3. the soaking of ropes also interestingly, since never it soaked off. It is necessary in Sergey to request about this.





I put to use either 4 millimeters Kolomna rope or of 3 f (I so understand - cord synthetic woven modernized 3. diameter - who manufactures, I do not know). Kolomna on 3 rubles at the point of the meter, on 8,5 rubles. Halliard - practically statics, not at all is pulled. But even Kolomna not to time was not extended. I do not see the need for moistening.
If you fear, that the cord will slip, then be bored a little at angle.





And, by the way, the people, if you apropos the installations of banners, call at the point of the installation monitoring! It is ready to depart (to leave) beside the detached missions and on the spot to demonstrate. Conditions before or on the soap.

[WxEdeEogle]

Philip wrote (a):
Were there no cases of of bracings based on the nails, and not better whether before this meaning to use some special posts with the rings against the end.
And also, it is not necessary whether to soak off the ropes before the bracing. It is, for example, known about experience of alloys along the mountain rivers that the twists for the frames of catamarans are better to moisten. So they more rapidly are extracted and less they are worn out.
About the catamarans all so, only twists preliminarily are soaked then so that the drawing together effort would not decrease during their wetting and the frame of cat did not crawl away itself before by evil threshold; indeed cross lines of frame keep purely on the friction.
But as far as are concerned, here wetting does not lead down so strong a drawing so that the cord would slip based on the nail. However with the installation we always additional fuses. Not on each nail, but on each third. Thus, just in case… and the cases are everyone. Certainly, this makes repeated broach impossible. But it is necessary to be able to pull so that would be received “the drum” from the very first.

[sirber]

Anonymous wrote (a):
Made “the installation of such” were taken nails for the slate and wooden plugs for the furniture. Through each 30-40 cm.
Idiocy. Normal people already of years 15 as stuck with the being cracked wooden plugs. Throw for the sake of nonsense to be throttled, work in a human manner.
Yes by itself without questions! Wooden plugs devised not I and manager and to it said client which he thought that this it will move out cheaper than ! I before jumps did not tell that not this matter not beside what of :. “you they were young while I it learned in special-OV and to me they advised”:. young they always erase!





Maxim





Apropos the installation of banners you me all astonish ......., especially this in my opinion not at all referring to advertisement Sergey been conceited yourselves old . Listen to his no one. And to generally such knot-shaped cookies before the advertisement not place, there must work only young fellows .......





Maxim, to listen to or no matter personal, not to you us to treat, but here to you I advise down the people it relates. Although sometimes and is rather coarse, - it, and you can listen to it, and you can is not, matter your.

[WxEdeEogle]

Although sometimes and is rather coarse, - …
To Maxim
Matter even not before the fact that . But before the fact that experience in it and head “”.
So that -