Terrible history.

[Volk]

On November 29 in Moscow rescuers took based on the wall industrial mountain climber and it was transmitted to the brigade of first aid. In the overhanging (trapping of rope) seamount- mountain climber, as a result of the violation of blood circulation before the lower extremities and the pressure transfer of nerve fibers were taken away the struts, and since it for long , until they note, it lost consciousness… from the tilting it saved thoracic binding… The arrived rescuers led it saved. work and lowered to the earth… where they led it beside feelings… but to go it so it was not able!!! Further fate this person against the given moment is unknown…
Morals! , COAST ITSELF… observe at least the elementary safety regulations… do not work before the lone person… indeed in above described case, the presence of a partner would noticeably lighten life…
With the wishes of health, wolf.





With the thoracic binding - mountain climber, to see… But what strut- that in it they did flow in? For unloading the struts during such distributions there is with the foot loop, for example… To say nothing of loops from the basic rope…
But before the case of that rolling up itself the ropes below and tightened beside the drop are a crawl stroke, for example - to upward it is possible .
Yes even without the crawl stroke - you cut the rope lower than - and forward, upward. If, of course, is not used any poor device of the type of (on it upward - there are no chances). Without the difference, how many decks on top - all better than to hang long time.
Is egg, , he said: they ring to it. In winter, frost of degrees 15. They speak - here it hang, something is not lowered… And have long ago it does hang? Yes hours are two already…
It is egg it went, it removed. Something there in man (young and inexperienced) with the occurred. Can - simply contaminated rope before by something of the type of - caught - I do not remember already. But this “” feared to make although anything, and it hang, having been strongly engaged by hands before the rope… What it waited - it is not very understandable. On the whole: you are not able - do not be taken.
Here matter not before the presence of partners. Here matter before the adequacy of behavior…

[Volk]

[WxEdeEogle]

Wolk wrote (a):





Pancake! I the percentages of 25 works one make…
What zh now, to be failed?
But with greediness of its as to be?

[Volk]

Greediness is not defect, but means to the existence
History faster simply instructive… and Sergey wrote that minimum, the must be known and to implement… .

[Aken]

If there is ANY elevator (, crawl stroke, yes the seizing unit: " - to be raised upward it is possible, after doubling rope and after moving out on the strut, at the same time struts will withdraw from the flowing in. To what extent I understand men simply he did not know, that to it to make, although, that, he cell phone did not have, the people to ring. By the way, I consider the presence of the working cell phone with the overhang the necessary element of safety.

One watertransport worker said, as before the childhood he caught crab in Syr-Dar'ya. Water is warm (higher than 25). It did not note cooling. Entire body unexpectedly contained. It is good on the coast in the low water. Hardly it was selected down the coast and only after warmed, it could move. But so, even shout it could not!
I to the fact that man does not manage to comprehend, as he loses consciousness.






wrote (a):
Man does not manage to comprehend, as he loses consciousness.

As loses consciousness - yes, it does not manage and it cannot have time, before principle. Long training session is necessary for this, and this is practically unreal.
But to comprehend that flow in the struts can (but it must!) any. But after feeling - to take measures for elimination.





, I heard …. but he did not comprehend, surely on poverty of his mind…. Although…. I yesterday associated with the miss, one of the commanders of structural firm, sentence to estimate clearing by the spatula of spotting beside 3 bricks of , 4 whiskey, I was estimated beside 02007rub. But before this miss tried to prove to me that 1500 rub. - limit of ..........

[wonjalb]

But before this miss tried to prove to me that 1500 rub. - limit of ..........
This was its limit, judging as far as everything.

[Duk]

Quotation:
before the childhood it caught crab in Syr-Dar'ya.
It transported to fellow. - creek with the unique shores. They are strictly vertical. they stand on the elbow or on the flange before water principally impossibly. As before the concreted ditch.

[shernjh]

Akim wrote (a):
…. By the way, I consider the presence of the working cell phone with the overhang the necessary element of safety.
I so count!!!

[VN]

With the thoracic binding - mountain climber, to see…
… If, of course, is not used any poor device of the type of (on it upward - there are no chances).
Generally, thoracic binding the people would without ceremony name and tightening for the crawl stroke-does mean speleologist!?
To I did not name “poor” device. This practically sole device, suitable for the long it is lowering.
The normal modification of makes it possible to monitor the entering it rope practically without the effort, since the internal effort of braking before the device is sufficiently great.
Rope it does not turn.
What you will not say about: Eights, -, FEET,…
But to use for its incline actually is impossible.

[wbn]

Wolk wrote (a):
On November 29 in Moscow rescuers took based on the wall industrial mountain climber and it was transmitted to the brigade of first aid. In the overhanging (trapping of rope) seamount- mountain climber, as a result of the violation of blood circulation before the lower extremities and the pressure transfer of nerve fibers were taken away the struts, and since it for long , until they note, it lost consciousness… from the tilting it saved thoracic binding… The arrived rescuers led it saved. work and lowered to the earth… where they led it beside feelings… but to go it so it was not able!!! Further fate this person against the given moment is unknown…
This piece is named suspension of trauma. It read about this down http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ (Engl.). There about the fact that this not from the pressure transfer of nerve fibers, but because of accumulation and hemostasis before the struts when strut for long without the movement. Type as with fainting - the brain blood is not sufficient. But to put such victim down the back as with fainting, is cannot his this .





wbl wrote (a):
This piece is named suspension of trauma. It read about this down http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ (Engl.). There about the fact that this not from the pressure transfer of nerve fibers, but because of accumulation and hemostasis before the struts when strut for long without the movement. Type as with fainting - the brain blood is not sufficient. But to put such victim down the back as with fainting, is cannot his this .
Based on what this suddenly?

[Aken]

Most likely - the syndrome of prolonged compression, but this, it is faster,
a question to to Gennadiy





Akim wrote (a):
Most likely - the syndrome of prolonged compression, but this, is faster, a question to to Gennadiy
Compression not with than. Specifically, the outflow of the blood beside the struts with their immobility. It is also in those for long standing without the movement in the absence of the possibility to strain muscles, which chase the blood along the glory.

[Ginnadij]

wbl wrote (a):
Wolk wrote (a):
On November 29 in Moscow rescuers took based on the wall industrial mountain climber and it was transmitted to the brigade of first aid. In the overhanging (trapping of rope) seamount- mountain climber, as a result of the violation of blood circulation before the lower extremities and the pressure transfer of nerve fibers were taken away the struts, and since it for long , until they note, it lost consciousness… from the tilting it saved thoracic binding… The arrived rescuers led it saved. work and lowered to the earth… where they led it beside feelings… but to go it so it was not able!!! Further fate this person against the given moment is unknown…
This piece is named suspension of trauma. It read about this down http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ (Engl.). There about the fact that this not from the pressure transfer of nerve fibers, but because of accumulation and hemostasis before the struts when strut for long without the movement. Type as with fainting - the brain blood is not sufficient. But to put such victim down the back as with fainting, is cannot his this .
Any victim without the consciousness must be packed before the reducing position - beside the pose on the side (pose of coma) otherwise of him will kill the retraction of the root of our own language…
That about than you write it occurs to be. Now even is input concept - trauma of hovering. Its essence before the similarity with the - syndrome, namely the compression of lower extremities beside the area of thigh, the violation of venous outflow of them, accumulation and congestion of the venous blood in which much exists what, down an example histamines. And its subsequent “impact” on the kidneys, the liver, and the gm. However, stacking or not the stacking of such victim down the back does not solve this problem.
This blood will not be slowly throw inn beside the blood stream, the load of strut will be as soon as taken. As soon as they will touch the earth…
Unfortunately we are forced to recognize that such victim it needs rendering down that qualified the honey of aid immediately after removal and it is simple automobile medicine chest him not to here help

[Ginnadij]

Akim wrote (a):
Most likely - the syndrome of prolonged compression, but this, is faster, a question to to Gennadiy
Compression not with than. Specifically, the outflow of the blood beside the struts with their immobility. It is also in those for long standing without the movement in the absence of the possibility to strain muscles, which chase the blood along the glory.





… Gennadiy outdistanced.
Above that to him respect!





http://cumgan.can/bhpVB2/feewtopic.pxb?t=138

[Ginnadij]

Condition which is described in the article before our pathology rather it pulls down orthostatic . However, this is entirely another pathologic chain, than that which appears with the - syndrome.
Furthermore this trauma, (trauma of hovering) is studied not based on 60 years of past century as many they think.
Before military medicine it is described as the trauma of parachutist, still in 30 years of last century… Before Soviet mountain climbing the attention was also paid by it.
So that there is not what new, there is the well forgotten old…





wbl wrote (a):
Wolk wrote (a):
On November 29 in Moscow rescuers took based on the wall industrial mountain climber and it was transmitted to the brigade of first aid. In the overhanging (trapping of rope) seamount- mountain climber, as a result of the violation of blood circulation before the lower extremities and the pressure transfer of nerve fibers were taken away the struts, and since it for long , until they note, it lost consciousness… from the tilting it saved thoracic binding… The arrived rescuers led it saved. work and lowered to the earth… where they led it beside feelings… but to go it so it was not able!!! Further fate this person against the given moment is unknown…
This piece is named suspension of trauma. It read about this down http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ (Engl.). There about the fact that this not from the pressure transfer of nerve fibers, but because of accumulation and hemostasis before the struts when strut for long without the movement. Type as with fainting - the brain blood is not sufficient. But to put such victim down the back as with fainting, is cannot his this .
So I about this.

[wbn]

wbl wrote (a):
This piece is named suspension of trauma. It read about this down http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ (Engl.). There about the fact that this not from the pressure transfer of nerve fibers, but because of accumulation and hemostasis before the struts when strut for long without the movement. Type as with fainting - the brain blood is not sufficient. But to put such victim down the back as with fainting, is cannot his this .
Based on what this suddenly?
Here it is written that to make in that case about this reference af url (again Engl.).
There there is the point about the fact that it is not possible to permit to lie down to the earth that it can die besides the heart attack or suffer from the inadequacy "?)or by the inadequacy).
Quotation:
During of rescue, NEVER of allow of them to of lie on of the of ground - they of can of die of instantly of a of heart of attack or of suffer of multiple of organ of failure
That such is the inadequacy I without the concept. Physicians must know details.

[Ginnadij]

Gentlemen! Like any conversion article, it sins not by correspondences and by inaccuracies. And it cannot be assumed as dogma and axiom. That to eliminate disagreements subsequently I will conduct discussion only about the victim lost consciousness!
You will memorize once and on always there is no such nosology (pathology, disease) as - HEART ATTACK! this is the purely average man's widely term, and under it most likely it is possible to conduct the sharp assault of stenocardia and generally myocardial infarction.
Now with the inadequacy OF POLY- much, ORGAN - it is understandable, also, in Africa organ, inadequacy…. - the inadequacy OF WHAT? The inadequacy of many organs is received or multi-organ inadequacy… Absurdity is received…
Or, if this article is written, let us say, by for , by cardiologist for the cardiologists it against the beginning one time mentions before the text that it is intended (oxygen, glucose, or there the ions of potassium/of sodium) and further on the text this is implied.
Term sucked out besides the finger or generated by interpreter.
And still one, cause of death (, first of all, social death - death of cortex gm there where our individual is prescribed as on the hard drive, or if you wish soul) always ONE!
THIS IS THE EXTINCTION OF THE CAGES OF CEREBRAL CORTEX BEFORE THE COROLLARY OF DEFICIENCY BY THEM OXYGEN (hypoxia).
But here the mechanisms, which led down this can have long chains and different starting mechanisms.
This article of to us as the description of the possible starting mechanism of death with the trauma of hovering. I undertake to claim that she describes him not correctly. Or let us say so, so superficially that in you can it will be added false representation about the rendering of first aid to victim.
If you can ensure stable condition to victim with the trauma of hovering to the arrival of qualified medical help (“03”) without packing him to the earth. To ensure to it the passability of the respiratory tract of times, control and possible restoration of cardiac activity (palpitation, pulse) two, and not the assumption of the blood from the lower extremities where she was saturated how not fall beside basic bloodstream three. - WITHOUT PACKING HIM TO THE EARTH…
Then beside the route gentlemen!!!
But I will only say immediately this not possibly! NOT THE COMA STILL NOT OF TO CONDUCT WARMLY PULMONARY RESUSCITATION OTHERWISE AS HAVING PUT DOWN THE BACK.
And your explanations, finally that arrived, to doctor about the fact that we left him to sit/to hang low- above to its arrival on the fact that they feared at the point of its kidneys the liver and other crane, will be the explanations of the amateurs those recently killed their comrade.
Amateurs of the had read much articles not of the well-known authors.

[aneh45]

It is understandable. But nevertheless how to enter in such cases? Indeed completely actually to fall into this situation!

[Ginnadij]

Delirium, complete. Affirmation according to that our heart cannot pump out it (blood) conversely borders beyond the idiocy!!!
Is overestimated the role “muscular pump”
Who does not believe that down Red Square before Moscow or to in London - to admire on the sentries.
First, give let us look down the blood, where we can place it. Our body contains about 10 pints of the blood, the majority of the blood is located before the glory and the arteries. This as storage, they will be extended sufficiently strongly if we you will charge and charge them; therefore which to fill them will upward as far as you be necessary to compress them based on the other side. Delicate muscles make this with your glory, this process is named “tone”. If these muscles are weakened down the sufficient degree, entire blood drains down under the activity of gravitation and before the very limiting case, entire blood will be contained below your waist. Certainly, this event must not occur mandatorily, but the prevention of the accumulation of the blood before the struts this is actual problem. Gravitation is strong and the blood dense; therefore to pump out it conversely upward down 4 or 5 feet from your struts to the head would be very difficult task. You certainly could not do independently this. Your heart is this pump, but also it cannot oscillate so strongly, necessarily, that the blood was under the pressure or these efforts to unsuccessful.
, in addition is strongly theme! The basic reason for the violation of the venous outflow of the blood from the lower extremities with the trauma of hovering these are not GRAVITATION and not denseness/blood density, but the overcompression of surface and deep glory by straps ISS.
What to supply the blood ago from your soles we could increase pressure - but this would require such great pressure, that your thighs would be exploded. No, instead of an increase in the power we developed better decision - heart before our struts. Yes, you read correctly. Vienna before the struts have before themselves one-way valves. Therefore we by all should compress them and we themselves for ourselves will be done by a pump. As soon as we began to go, these foot glory began to move since they they were included between the muscles, and we move struts and are missed, and glory are compressed and are unclamped again and again - is forced the blood back beside the stomach. This is amazingly good system - when we run, hardly there is before the struts generally!
The mechanism of the work of the valve apparatus of the venous system of man is not correctly described. It is described in the manner that as if its drive they are the same muscles of struts, and this is not so! It turns out that when we sleep (we lie not mobilely) the valve the apparatus of venous system simply on is simply disconnected - delirium!!!
The first, when the blood before the brain , your brain decides to introduce you beside shock . You to be did experience sometimes hemorrhage? Pulse is increased and respiration is repeated, you feel light , trembling, cold, perspiration and uneasiness. This strongly does not help, tons to that you must feel, this the thirst of ., but… the evolution not of . An increase in the pulse moves the blood upward to the brain from the skin, this helps as far as several minutes - and, of course, this still and forces the blood down to your struts. Finally, your brain of its error passes to the plan C -…. You before fainting.
The attempt as far as so amateurish a language to describe the mechanisms of the development of the erectile and subsequent torpid stage of shock this is the profanation of theme, which borders beyond the crime.
An attempt at the imparting to the brain as such of the properties of the center of the manager besides all, it is certainly worthy respect, however, gm this very complex and much problem organ and some of its areas, or let us say so the anatomical formations, which they work completely independently. Vasomotor and respiratory centers “work” of which it is here described down an example.
Why before fainting? Because if you before fainting, you mandatorily must fall. Your brain learned this at the point of millions years… of drops. When you are hammered according to the earth, the blood, seized before your struts is returned and all is good. You came to, you feel nausea and if you soldier at the parade you prepare to carry punishment. Problem - if you cannot fall. Your brain does not have a concept as to solve this problem - therefore if you after they proved to be before fainting, you are physically held before the vertical position by system, litters or cross - in your brain great problems. It turns off , forcing you to fall beside fainting and still it needs the blood, which was saved before your struts. It . Certainly, you without the consciousness and you not to of all this… but you to . You not “are spilled and do not try anything another” - you to . Expecting, you die
This is quite principal faulty grain of this article! The again attracted at the point of the ears outputs because of not the knowledge of the physiology of blood circulation, and most important that this paragraph to straight line contradicts with the general and chief conclusions by the recommendations at the end of article, namely:
plan 1: to sit, to be weakened
Possibly, you you sit reading these lines. Some time you did not move struts, but you were not dead. … your thighs are almost horizontal - they the place, where the greatest quantity of blood is accumulated, but if they are elevated, then suspension of trauma it is almost impossible. Think, as frequently you heard about the fact that someone lost the consciousness or died before the seat.





In me , you did meet such or people simply hanging on the ropes?
And the latter, who is not completely understandable and on the basis what carried out the affirmation that of victim after removal based on the ropes it cannot be put down the back and generally it cannot be put to the earth and necessary to precisely retain more sedentarily position…
VERY, VERY AND VERY RISKY FOR THE LIFE OF OF THAT FALLEN BESIDE THE MISFORTUNE OUTPUT!
AFFIRMATION ON THE FACE OF THE CRIME

[Ginnadij]

alex45 wrote (a):
It is understandable. But nevertheless how to enter in such cases? Indeed completely actually to fall into this situation!
The first, dependant beyond the burden of victim bell beside “03” must be done by you before you to recovery operation.
The time of of the brigade “03” and the time of removal based on the hovering must be combined! If you do at the point of the revolution, first they removed then they rang - you will complete the error, most fatal.
The second, the descent of victim beside the base must occur before the position the head above all of the remaining of times, and with the inspection of the passability of respiratory tract two. We eliminate the factor of aspiration (stopping throat) by its own language.





But are further we along the route the development of many “IF” many “THAT” and very many “BUT”
1. suffered without the consciousness BUT will maintain pulse and respiration, THEN after lowering it to the earth, it must be packed to the earth before the pose “of coma” - position on by law to side, right hand under the head bent before the elbow, left foot is strongly bent before the elbow and stability to this pose of url with the subsequent control of its pulse and respiration, whose stopping above itself immediate roll down the back began (warmly pulmonary resuscitation).
2. IF suffered before the consciousness THAT him it is possible to leave before the pose, BUT not that must prevent its immediate transfer beside the pose described above with the loss as far as it of consciousness. Neither whatever equipment nor what mechanisms, fastened to the rope and which hold it before this position are permitted!
3. IF we reliably know that victim very for long it was without the movement in state when his strut were strong , I IF we have before the presence tourniquets, I IF we KNOW AND KNOW HOW to place, attention (!), VENOUS TOURNIQUET - that we can it will attempt this to do.
Everyone who to claim that the abandonment of victim before the overhanging condition, low- above , for the purpose of the simulation of venous tourniquet as far as his binding (arbor) which continues to compress glory and thus, allegedly, it secures it from the tourniquet shock - CRIMINAL AMATEUR!
4. not depending on the burden of victim, it must be INSPECTED and from all equipment and equipment of that placed on Ger. I before this question to you reveal the maximum of delicate address with it.
You be ready to its so that of after all TO CUT FOR THE SAKE OF KNIFE, A following it and JACKET on one of the sleeves. And expensive thermal under it also!
This necessary for the fastest debugging “venous access” for the purpose of the carrying out of infusion therapy - that how will be occupied faster.
5. EXAMINATION of victim this is very important! Indeed from something it fell into this situation with the hovering. Possibly (!) this is hemorrhage even then, without waiting until the arrival “03” we should it stop.
Man losing the blood - loses life!!!
6. you remember about the fact that man being been located without the movement long time still is subjected down the influence of cold more than by the fact those people, which move with other equal.
The abundance of clothing on the worker does not guarantee to it heat-. On this your task of victim to the arrival “Of 3” him to warm, or, in any case, to attempt this to do. The cut in the preceding point sleeve should not be left those discovered! Attentively relate down that where we of victim, if these are bare concrete/asphalt/the earth/snow and is , then heat loss is continued.
The same point is timely and in summer, but with an accuracy to at the point of the revolution. Commonplace thermal shock is the very frequent reason for the loss of consciousness against the height (the very same solar). Such victim must be packed before the shadow, or shadow is created above it. Is applied cold beside the area of occiput and front we free breast and stomach based on their constraining equipment and clothing.

[Cafvron minh-sab]

But the rules of like provide for work before such individual system, which does not make it possible during the prolonged hovering to obtain similar traumata. The time even is regulated: before the consciousness, and without the consciousness.
Thus, or not?

[Ginnadij]

But the rules of like provide for work before such individual system, which does not make it possible during the prolonged hovering to obtain similar traumata. The time even is regulated: before the consciousness, and without the consciousness.
Thus, or not?

[Cafvron minh-sab]

He did not comprehend, as “it is not created”? But to whom of ? To ?

[Ginnadij]

Saffron milk-cap wrote (a):
He did not comprehend, as “it is not created”? But to whom of ? To ? : wink:
Concept, “long time” this very relative concept…
Systems are such, different producers, certainly, try to create; however, in all to take into account is not possible (specific features, ambient conditions, time, a quantity of of the clothing, and the like and so forth) and today there are certainly systems which they minimize the risk of obtaining this trauma, but DO NOT ELIMINATE IT ENTIRELY!
Rules this .. certainly document and it must be honored. However, this not and down it not must does not pray…





For - dressed about all rules .. beside best ISS, from the leader on the market for of equipment NEVERTHELESS IT IS NOT INSURED ACCORDING TO THE TRAUMA OF HOVERING.
and we its comrades based on the work must be able to show it first aid.

[VN]

Saffron milk-cap!
Gennadiy the laws: there are no such insurance systems, which would make it possible to avoid the described here trauma with the prolonged hovering without the movement. For example, 40 minutes.
Neither nor fate. Neither Navaho- boss nor …

[Cafvron minh-sab]

I do not remember precisely, but there were there much smaller intervals. I understand, that any system has its limitations.
Speech went on, if I correctly understand, about the time, sufficient for reacting surrounding down the situation, and the organization of rescue operations.
Simply I consider that if there is probability of trauma, then it is necessary to consider it; and as far as possible, to prevent previously, by available measures. For example, the competently and urged system, seat, the presence of pedals. Furthermore, observer or a partner, which can organize rescue operations.